DRAFT! Work in progress! Feedback welcome
One advantage startups have over established companies is that there are no discrimination laws about starting businesses. For example, I would be reluctant to start a startup with a woman who had small children, or was likely to have them soon. But you’re not allowed to ask prospective employees if they plan to have kids soon. Whereas when you’re starting a company, you can discriminate on any basis you want about who you start it with.
— Y Combinator founder Paul Graham, in How to Start a Startup
Christopher Steiner’s The Disruptor in the Valley in Forbes discusses how this essay, along with Paul’s Harvard talk, eventually inspired red-hot technology incubator YC. He doesn’t include this quote, alas, and also doesn’t mention the reports in the Mercury News and Wall Street Journal of YCs #diversityfail or Tereza Nemessanyi’s XX Combinator. I guess they didn’t fit in with the article’s subtitle: “Paul Graham’s Y Combinator has stormed Silicon Valley and pioneered a better way to build a company.”
YC has indeed had a huge impact.  Christopher reports that YC typically puts about $15-$20K into the companies in return for a 5% equity stake; with over 400 companies in their portfolio they’re a powerful force in the tech startup world. With the help of a lot of gushing coverage in the TechCrunch and their buddies in the tech press, 30 of their of the 36 startups in the most recent crop incubator have gotten funding since Demo Day in August, many of them over $1 million.  Collusion is soooo hot these days so it’s as good a time for a fluff piece as any.
Paul’s The New Funding Landscape predicts that the cozy win/win/win dynamics will continue for a while:
The super-angels will try to undermine the VCs by acting faster, and the VCs will try to undermine the super-angels by driving up valuations. Which for founders will result in the perfect combination: funding rounds that close fast, with high valuations.
It’s such a perfect combination for the overhelmingly white male worlds of tech founders, incubators like YC and TechStars, angel and “super-angel” investors (many of them ex-entrepreneurs), VCs, and the tech press that covers it all that recently people have started to question whether it’s a bubble. Paul thinks not, and the word doesn’t come up in Christopher’s article.
There’s plenty of good stuff though. Jessica Mah, co-founder and CEO of inDinero and several other YC entrepeneurs have some good perspectives.* There’s also a nice description of how the YC mafia protect and collaborate with each other and “regard Graham as their sensei”. Greg from YC investor Sequoia Capital, TechCrunch’s Michael, and AngelGate bad and good guys “foul-mouth Dave” and Ron (who’s invested in 20 YC companies and helped Michael sell out to AOL ) all illustrate this nicely in the article, sharing different ways YC is great. The early reviews on Hacker News, one of the hubs of the community, laud the article as a great portrait of Paul and praise him for “giving back to the community in such a sustainable, profitable way.”
The Big Interview describes a key part of the YC selection process: the hot 10-minute session founders go through with all five partners bearing down and asking questions at the same time. And no proprietries! What does Paul look for?
It really paints a picture of the so many meetings in the high-tech world: a multi-way competition showing off whose smartest and most powerful and who’s got the balls, people with the power ganging up on somebody looking for help, sadism masked with “it’s for your own good.” If YC really feels so terrible about seeing founders’ hands shaking during the interview, why not create a less hostile environment?
Paul contributes a side-bar, the all-male What it takes (also posted as What We Look for in Founders). It’s a very interesting ad, making it clear to founders and investors what YC is selecting and training for. The ideal YC founders are cockroach-like in their determination,** ready to give up on their dreams, intelligent, and naughty. They care about “big moral questions”, but aren’t into “observing proprietries.” They delight in breaking rules, although of course not “rules that matter” to Paul.
Unfortunately there isn’t any discussion the implications of these criteria. For example, the YC universe now has hundreds of companies trained in an overwhelmingly-male environment that legitimizes discrimination against women. Maybe for them this isn’t a big moral question and all stuff about equality is just rules that don’t matter, but others disagree.  What impact does this have on the tech scene as a whole? As women in technology continue to improve their skills in highlighting discrimination, and other incubators emerge, what are the likely implications for YC?
And speaking of pink elephants, there’s a huge collective blindspot here. YC’s companies, selected on the basis of criteria that favor young guys and with the mindset that discrimination against women is a competitive advantage, get great training in what it takes to build a product and a business. Then they’re covered by the overwhelmingly-male tech and business press, funded by the overwhelmingly male super-angel and VC worlds, and acquired by companies run and owned mostly by guys those same angels and VCs have invested in. Lucky founders then share their wisdom with and invest in the next generation of startups. Repeat.
You don’t by any chance think they’re collectively missing most of the best opportunities?
As Cindy Gallop says, guys talking to guys about guys create a closed loop where what passes for innovative becomes increasingly less and less so. Paul’s comments about VCs in footnote 3 of “The New Funding Landscape” apply just as well to YC’s current success:
They could make it self-perpetuating if they used it to get all the best new startups. But I don’t think they’ll be able to. To get all the best startups, you have to do more than make them want you. You also have to want them; you have to recognize them when you see them, and that’s much harder.
Indeed. YC has gender bias and other forms of discrimination institutionalized so deeply in their culture and their selection criteria that it’ll be a very disruptive “pivot”. And probably very entertaining, too!
Update, Jan 2011: Dynamite conclusion still needed :-)Â See the comments for observations about Hacker News since the original draft.
* although as I discuss at somewhat greater length in a comment in Tissue turgor and Y Combinator’s secret sauce, it would have been great to hear from other women too. Most glaringly, Jessica Livingston is Y Combinator co-founder and married to him and she doesn’t even get a quote and a sidebar?  It also would have been nice to hear from Amanda Peay of Message Party, author of I’m a Female YC Founder and You Can Be Too.
** more on founders as cockroaches in Liz Gannes’ summary of the recent YC startup school on GigaOm. Congrats to GigaOm for closing another $2.5 million in funding in a very cluttered space . Â And while we’re at it, congrats to Liz who along with Ina Fried is joining All Things Digital.
Image credit: Pink Elephants by Rakka, via Flickr, licensed under Creative Commons
jon | 13-Nov-10 at 7:28 am | Permalink
Every Hacker News member has a popularity rating (also known as karma), based on the number of times people have voted for and against your posts and comments. The right to downvote a comment is reserved to people who have been on HN a while. It used to be that you could downvote once your karma was 200; alas, just as I neared the 200 mark, they changed the bar to 500. No downvoting for me!
Recently, there’s been a chunk discussion of the TSA: pilots pushing back against the choices between a strip search and groping, EPIC’s lawsuit, etc. So when Deborah wrote an excellent “what you can do” blog post, I thought it was worth posting to HN. It quickly got enough votes to make it to the front page, and then the pushback started: RiderOfGiraffes announced he’d be “flagging” posts about the TSA, and suddenly all my comments started getting downvoted. My karma took a hit.
I asked the community how I should respond, and got a couple of interesting responses. Here’s some of what nkurz had to say:
Given Paul’s point about “breaking the rules, just not the ones that matter,” I expressed my astonishment to me that people downvote a post based on something so superficial. The response:
jon | 13-Nov-10 at 7:43 am | Permalink
YC just added a couple more partners, Paul Buchheit and Harj Taggar. Here was my comment
YuriNiyazov responded
His comment got 18 points (upvotes minus downvotes).
Mine: -2.
HN folks like to pride themselves on being evidence-based, so I replied with a quote from an LA Times interview with one of the new partners talking about how YC had actually approached him a while ago — contradicting Yuri. The results?
-2 for this comment as well. Sigh.
As jodrellblank said in a reply to my original question
Well said. About those collective blindspots …
jon | 24-Nov-10 at 8:00 am | Permalink
The HN thread discussing Anna Debenham’s excellent Srunchup article Ageism highlights another dimension of HN’s anti-diversity attitude. Anna combined her and others’ personal experiences, along with survey data from A List Apart, and makes a compelling case about the challenges young designers face. For example
When I checked the HN discussion, the top-ranked comment included this:
I objected:
And immediately got downvoted — making my point for me.
jon | 24-Nov-10 at 8:46 am | Permalink
Long-time HN’er Matt Maroon’s I Quit Hacker News cites a bunch of reasons for his decisions. For example: people misusing downvoting to mean disagreement instead of value, the predictability of comments on so many topics, the naivite of the ideology, the way the community as a whole is snobbish and out of touch. All of which I agree with. But it was his number one reason that sparked by far the most discussion:
Right. Heaven forbid that minorities should be able to discuss topics they’re interested in.
There’s some good stuff in the discussion, including various suggestions for how simple tweaks in the software could let people who aren’t interested in a particular topic avoid seeing it. Most of it, though, focused on the TSA topics. I waded into it and my popularity took a beating — for example in this interaction:
Eventually Paul Graham weighed in.
Interesting. Enough people in the community want to discuss the TSA that the stories making it to the front page even despite the penalty and people with a policy of flagging all of them. And rather than giving people options to choose the stories they’re not interested in, Paul silently modified the algorithm to remove stories he sees as a danger. Good to know.
Alas, Paul didn’t reply to my follow-on question (which of course immediately got voted down, although later recovered a little). Somebody else did, though, and I think he captured the attitude large segments of the HN community have towards conformity very nicely.
Update, November 2013: How Hacker News ranking really works: scoring, controversy, and penalties and the accompanying HN discussion explore the algorithm, including the penalty given to discussions of the NSA.
jon | 24-Nov-10 at 6:55 pm | Permalink
Ha. I just checked Hacker News, and the top story is Bruce Schneier’s 2006 Refuse to be Terrorized.
Yeah really.
jon | 30-Nov-10 at 2:54 pm | Permalink
On TechCrunch, Leena Rao reports
Seems like a great deal, and a huge business advantage for all these companies that believe it’s okay to discriminate. Leena also notes
jon | 06-Dec-10 at 12:30 pm | Permalink
In a discussion of conference anti-harassment policies follower commented that Potentially “being different” in addition to standing up and out can be a daunting prospect.. JonnieCache dismised this as “laughable considering how much talk there is in the hacker world of defying convention, challenging conventional wisdom, standing out from the crowd, changing the world and associated platitudes.” Unsurprisingly, I saw things differently:
To which he replied
Looking at the voting … follower’s original post got 2 points; JohnnieCache’s and my first response were at 5 points; our second points were at 3 and 4 respectively. It’s a small data set, but what I come away thinking is that half the guys on HN wouldn’t react well to hot pink jeans on a guy. How non-conformist!
jon | 10-Dec-10 at 9:29 am | Permalink
In a discussion of Anonymous stops dropping DDoS bombs, starts dropping science, there was some discussion of gendered language in their call to action. An excerpt:
jon | 10-Dec-10 at 9:37 am | Permalink
In a discussion about Why intelligent communities will always fail, nhangen comments:
I replied something along the lines of “sounds like HN to me.”
jon | 22-Dec-10 at 4:58 pm | Permalink
From Hot Startups Lack Female Employees (even as applicants)
jon | 23-Dec-10 at 11:44 pm | Permalink
In a discussion about UX Magazine’s User Experience for Developers, I commented:
wushupork (aka Pek Pongpaet) replied
which as you can imagine delighted me no end. But guess what?
My comment was downvoted anyhow.
jon | 24-Dec-10 at 12:00 am | Permalink
Speaking of getting downvoted, here was another one that cracked me up. It started with a sycophantic post by new YC partner Paul (ex-Google, ex-Friendfeed, ex-Facebook) Beucheit about how great a company Google was for various reasons, starting with …
On HN, mattmanser commented:
Paul’s reply
At which point I jumped in with:
The voting?
Paul’s original article: 314 points
Matt’s comment: 6
Paul’s reply: 38
me: 0
Because heaven forbid anybody should point out that one of the guys running YC is confusing two basic business concepts.
jon | 24-Dec-10 at 5:55 pm | Permalink
In a thread on a rape survivor being arrested after refusing a patdown led to a question on why this is an interesting phenomenon (as opposed to reposting interesting 5- to 10-year old essays from guys, which seems to be accepted de facto as “news”). here was my reply:
Somewhat surprisingly I got upvoted — but the thread still got killed. I guess civil liberties are particularly threatening on Hacker News if they involve a challenge to rape culture.
Liminal states :: Life imitates art imitates life? | 18-Jan-11 at 2:08 pm | Permalink
[…] my comic novel-in-progress. The scene’s set on a discussion forum that’s modeled after Hacker News: startup founder: ladzzz.com is like Quora meets Foursquare with questions guys want to know […]
jon | 19-Jan-11 at 1:03 pm | Permalink
A CoderStack article looking at gender differences between math, IT, and computing in UK teens sparked an entertaining discussion on HN, including this:
Yeah really. For example here’s what yummyfajitas had to say.
So I jumped in.
Looks like yummyfajitas (aka Chris Stuccio, Postdoctoral Instructor at NYU’s Courant Institute) doesn’t understand the definition of “ad hominem” argument. Yes, I am saying that a guy saying that it’s an open question whether women are as intelligent as men is an example of a sexist and self-serving attitude. It’s not an “argument” of any kind, it’s definitional. And it’s not “ad hominem” because it’s about the attitude rather than the person. Sheesh. What are they teaching post-docs these days?
There’s lots of funny stuff elsewhere in the thread too. My karma took a small hit, but it was well worth it.
March 2014: yummyfajitas is still around Hacker News, and recently garnered comments was named Model, View, Culture’s HN Comment of the week
jon | 19-Jan-11 at 4:49 pm | Permalink
Meanwhile, on Twitter:
Restructure! | 22-Jan-11 at 9:54 am | Permalink
Karma is interesting. The geek manifestations of myself typically get upvoted because of geek groupthink, but the anti-sexist manifestations of myself typically get downvoted because of sexist-male groupthink.
Given that I share certain values with others on HN, I agree with nkurz, but not for the “purple mohawk” reason. HN doesn’t want to be like reddit, and we want quality over quantity. I think HN has already jumped the shark a while ago, but I think the “broken window” theory works for online comments, and acceptance of free-form comments can spiral into badly-spelled and poorly thought-out comments.
Yes, when I clicked on the pushback link, your lack of capitalization hurt my eyes, and I might just be trying to rationalize my aesthetic preferences, but … I think clear communication and writing are very important, and a good writer writes for the reader, not for herself, meaning that you shouldn’t write in a lazy way without capitalization, as it’s more difficult for the reader. Additionally, not everyone on the Internet speaks English as a first language, so punctuating properly and writing proper sentences would aid in communicating to a larger audience.
jon | 24-Jan-11 at 4:42 pm | Permalink
Thanks for the comment, Restructure. I have similar experiences with comments – plus I get downvoted for activism stuff too. Oh well, it comes with the territory.
Overall I’ve got mixed feelings about the quality of comments on HN. There are some truly outstanding ones; but there’s also a lot of incorrect statements made very forcefully, opinion described as fact, veiled attacks, power games, deference to famous commenters, etc. etc. When it’s a topic that I know something about, I’m frequently struck by how bad the voting is — a couple of recent examples are the Drake equation and Tunisian Facebook activists. Overall it’s a much higher-noise experience for me than I remember Slashdot being for several at its height. More accuratly Slashdot had waaaaay more noise comments, but was a good experience browsing with Score >= 4.
> I think clear communication and writing are very important, and a good writer writes for the reader, not for herself, meaning that you shouldn’t write in a lazy way without capitalization, as it’s more difficult for the reader.
It’s a good point about how all-lower-case text may be harder for some people to read. On HN, I do it because trying to intentionally stand out from the others and get readers out of their usual cognitive zone at least a little — a pure-text equivalent of the way Brecht’s musical theater company used to intentionally sing against the beats for City of Mahogany. Also, aesthetically I personally consider lower-case more aesthetic.
I can see certainly prefer why people might not like all-lower-case post, but it seems a stretch to go from there to a downvote. To me that seems like paying more attention to form rather than content, and applying a different standard (downvoting because this post could be better, as opposed to downvoting beause it doesn’t add value to the discussion). But, reasonable minds differ. One of my takeaways from the discussion was to use correct capitalization on comments where I actually cared about whether or not I was upvoted, so it’s good learning on my part.
jon | 24-Jan-11 at 4:50 pm | Permalink
Also …
> a good writer writes for the reader, not for herself
I’m on HN as an activist and an entrepreneur; so I’m writing for particular purposes. In HN’s role as “the new Slashdot”, is there a way to leverage if for civil liberties activism? As somebody who will probably do another startup, how can I effectively use it to get visibility in HN’s audience? And as somebody who’s looking for business opportunities, what do YC’s and HN’s shared blind spots reveal about where I should be looking?
Of course I also want to please my readers by informing and entertaining them, but those aren’t my only goals.
Restructure! | 31-Jan-11 at 7:11 am | Permalink
Interesting. If I didn’t know the comment you showed me and your replies came from you, I would think this person was “trolling”. I’ve been called a troll, too, for speaking against the status quo, so I don’t mean to suggest that perception of “trolling” is objective.
Ideally, I don’t want non-tech discussion mixed in with “Hacker News”, because I find that off-topic discussion is more likely to have sexism and assumptions about a common meatspace state of being (male, white, etc.).
jon | 18-Feb-11 at 8:12 am | Permalink
Thanks again for response, Restructure … a great conversation!
I can see why people would take my comment as trolling. Wikipedia’s definition of a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.” Of course, “on-topic” is subjective — more on that in the next comment.
In terms of intent …
The screenshot on the right is a great example of Hacker News as a platform for civil liberties activism. During Get FISA Right’s Super Bowl Sunday Make some noise against the Patriot Act campaign. Hacker News was the second biggest source of traffic, primarily from from a comment I left in very popular thread. It wasn’t even a great comment — I think it only got two votes. From an activist’s perspective, imagine the impact of getting a link on the front page of Hacker News at the right time. Just like Slashdot, Reddit, and occasionally even Digg, it should be a valuable platform for privacy and civil rights.
For the last prong of the troll definition, well, yeah, I am trying to provoke both an intellectual and emotional response — as I do with most things I write. I want people on HN to intellectually realize that it’s important for them to get involved with this issue, and feel increasingly ashamed and defensive when they don’t.
So when you add it all up, it’s either a novel approach to social media strategy and grassroots activism as performance art … or trolling. Or both, I suppose.
In terms of non-tech vs. tech discussions, from my perspective the sexism is pervasive … unsurprisingly, given Paul Graham’s views and the presence of hundreds of companies who have been trained in the belief that discrimination against women is a business advantage. And there’s plenty of other assumptions about common meatspaces state of mind in the tech threads that I find just as odious: techie-elitist, privileged, heteronormative, ageist, anti-privacy, unwilling to challenge dominance structures.
So one way to try to change that — or at least to make contact with the people there who don’t want it to be that way — is to broaden the discussion and include meta issues. I wonder if at some level this is why Paul Graham sees civil liberties as such a danger.
jon | 18-Feb-11 at 9:01 am | Permalink
asmosoinio possted Why I stopped travelling to the US and largely stopped doing business in the US to HN, got a couple hundred votes and sparked another firestorm of controversy. The top comment is by edw519 (karma 49228) saying “I have bit my tongue for a long time about this great community’s slipping quality, but honestly, how does shit like this make it to the top of Hacker News. Flagged.” The reply is by tptacek (karma 57896) vehmemently agreeing, once again saying we shouldn’t talk about TSA issues, and complaining about groupthink. davidw (karma 21912) chimes in, thanking edw519 for breaking the rules by flagging it and saying something. And so it goes.
But not everybody saw it that way.
As part of the discussion, Luc had a plausible suggestion for what people who thought the site wa going downhill to do. For once, tptacek and I agree:
jon | 23-May-11 at 7:55 pm | Permalink
At least for me, Paul’s latest experiment really reduced Hacker News’ value, so I’m spending much less time there. But the underlying question of how political the site should be is still being fought out. With the Obama administration proposing the “IP PROTECT” internet censorship act up in Congress and other stories like PATRIOT Act renewal and the key role web 2.0 startup NationBuilder in the Scottish elections, there continue to be a trickle of political stories on the front page. In a thread on Whatever happened to the no-politics rule?”, top-ranked YC commenter tptacek suggested one of the reasons:
Hmm, I wonder who he’s talking about?
Hiiii!!!!!! (Waves)
It’s a tricky situation. As tptacek says, the site was conceived back in 2007 as “Reddit without the noise” by a bunch of people who saw politics, civil liberties, and cat pictures as noise. As the site’s become successful and an entree into the world of YCombinator and friends, it’s attracted a lot of people — many of whom see civil liberties (including being able to travel by air without being groped) as very relevant to our day-to-day entrepenurial lives.
And even more importantly, the world has changed since 2007. In the US, there’s Startup America (high-profile government support for entrepeneurship) and the entrepeneurial community is attempting to organize for the Startup Visa Act. Less positively, domain seizures, IP PROTECT, the aftermath of Wikileaks, and increased use of National Security Letters and gag orders make civil liberties be a key business concerns for every web-based startup conversely. Internationally, Arab Spring highlights entrepeneurs’ and new technology’s role in politics, and Falun Gong’s lawsuit against Cisco shows new categories of risks for companies.
So HN either will have to evolve to see these kinds of political issues as within scope, or lose relevancy to a lot of entrepeneurs — and contribute to a collective blindspot for YC companies.
jon | 24-May-11 at 9:28 am | Permalink
Julia Adkins | 24-May-11 at 10:39 am | Permalink
Hi Paul,
I’ve got a great idea for the beverage industry, which uses toxic sweetners like aspertame, (known to cause brain cancer, but the FDA aproved it anway), splenda, made from chlorine, and nutrasweet. I know of a great non toxic sweetner that isnt being utilized.
Thanks,
Julia
jon | 26-May-11 at 9:58 am | Permalink
You’d think that the federal government threatening to shut off all flights to and from Texas would meet Hacker News’ guideline “of interest to hackers” (at least the ones in or doing business with people in Texas — or New York, where they’re talking about passing a similar local ordinance). And you’d be right: this story was in the top ten when I checked HN this morning even despite getting an automatic penalty because it had TSA in the title. When I went back, though, it was marked as [dead] … flagged, presumably, by the lolcat brigade of tptaceck and friends.
jon | 17-Jun-11 at 7:56 am | Permalink
redpill27 put together a nice “best of” site, making it easy to see the highest-rated comments for any user. Here’s a few other reactions:
Here’s my top-rated comments. Unsurprisingly, there’s nothing in my top 20 about the TSA, civil liberties, or diversity anywhere near the top — or for that matter software engineering. Looks like I don’t align all that well with the HN zeitgeist.
jon | 17-Jun-11 at 8:09 am | Permalink
Looks like my response to Welcome Sam, Garry, Emmett, and Justin, announcing Y Combinator’s four new partners, once again didn’t align with the HN zeitgeist — but at least it got a response from Paul Graham
Here was my reply, linking off to an excellent interview by Pemo Theodore that also featured Launch Bit founders Jennifer Chin and Elizabeth Yin:
Pemo adds
jon | 20-Jun-11 at 11:23 am | Permalink
Intersectionality and you! The comment’s from the Hacker News discussion of Wayne Sutton’s Two 11-year-old entrepreneurs learned the hard way what it’s like to be a minority in tech during Startup Weekend that’s a very HN-ish combination of racism and ageism and confused thinking masked as rhetorical questions and attacks.
Coincidentally enough I’m working on a blog post about my own experiences with teen entrepeneurs and diversity at Seattle Startup Weekend (here’s a teaser) … for the purposes of this thread, though, I want to highlight how much information is lost in the HN discussion by not having votes available. There are some very good comments (for example dgabriel’s points about why we’re not in a post-racial society and nkassis’ suggestion of using AppInventor for Android) mixed in with the bad there … what percentage of HN readers see it the way I do? Alas, no good way to know.
jon | 20-Nov-11 at 9:21 am | Permalink
Paul Graham responded in the Hacker News discussion by tweeting a link to photos of Rails conferences, and went on to explain
Well no, not really. As thaumaturgy explains:
November 24: on Outlier, Michael W Ellison posted some reflections on Ries’ posts, including
Unsurprisingly, folks on HN disagree.
December 20: in a Bloomberg inverview with Emily Chang, Paul once again described things in terms of a filter:
The guys on Hacker News generally liked this framing, although I wasn’t convinced … and while I appreciated his response, I didn’t find it particularly persuasive.
jon | 22-Dec-11 at 5:04 pm | Permalink
Meanwhile, on Hacker News:
As Paul Graham said a year ago, explaining his decision to censor stories about the TSA.
Indeed!
jon | 12-Jan-12 at 8:20 am | Permalink
January 19:
HN didn’t go dark on January 18, although did put a black box over its logo to show opposition to SOPA. But civil liberties now seem to be a fairly entrenched topic …
jon | 08-Mar-12 at 9:35 am | Permalink
Will Hacker News’ new-found awareness of civil liberties translate to more tolerance of discussing the TSA? Early returns are promising. The top story on Hacker News yesterday was Jonathan Corbett’s viral video:
And today “Blogger Bob’s” weak response on the TSA Blog is on the front page as well. Here’s how Paul Graham characterized it:
Indeed. Others on the thread make some excellent points too. In fact it’s a very normal Hacker News discussion.
Looks like the TSA is now on topic 🙂
jon | 06-Jun-13 at 9:08 pm | Permalink
Hacker News front page, June 6 2013:
jon | 20-Dec-13 at 9:42 pm | Permalink
As the Snowden revelations continued to get a lot of attention on Hacker News, it appears that Paul Graham has changed the algorithm to penalize stories with NSA in the title. Plenty of stories continue to make it on to the front page, so one way of looking at it is as a workaround for HN’s minimal filtering functionality. ‘krapp makes some excellent points about this as well as the algorithm’s attempt to penalize threads that seem like they’ve degenerated into comment wars (based on the ratio of comments to upvotes):
‘tptacek has been quite a polarizing presence in the NSA discussions: while nobody disputes that he often makes valuable contributions, he’s also seen as stomping down critical viewpoints to the point that quite a few people seem to see him as an NSA apologist. In the process, he’s taken some very strong positions pooh-poohing some of the reports of NSA overreach — positions that haven’t held up well as more information comes out. There was a good example today, after his repeated assertions that the NSA’s “alleged” backdooring of a crypto standard was no big deal in practice, it turned out that the NSA had paid RSA $10 million to make the backdoored crypto system the default. But as znowi said on another thread:
Update, January 2014: there’s also non-algorithmic filtering, for example HN’s policy of killing articles critical of YC companies. As Paul points out (in a heavily-downvoted comment), the guidelines make it clear that while it’s fine to use HN to highlight issues about other companies, YC companies are off-limits. He didn’t phrase it exactly that way of course 🙂
jon | 30-Dec-13 at 11:28 pm | Permalink
Fireworks! It started when ValleyWag’s Natisha Tiku highlighted a quote from an interview with Paul originally published in The Information. Paul claimed he was misquoted, Michael Arrington joined in, The Information’s Jessica Lessin discussed why they had edited a word out … pass the popcorn!
Reading the actual transcript, there isn’t a lot new here. The interviewer asked Paul what would be lost if Y Combinator was more proactive about looking for women founders, and Paul’s response was that no, “We can’t make these women look at the world through hacker eyes and start Facebook because they haven’t been hacking for the past 10 years” — where, as he explains in What I Didn’t Say:
It’s very similar to a discussion from a couple of years ago. YC’s criteria favor “hackers”, who are disproportionately male. Unsurprisingly, this results in YC funding mostly guys. And there’s nothing they can do about it because that’s just the way it is.
Various comment threads on Hacker News [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] have a range of opinions … well, okay, most of the opinions are what you’d expect, but there are some exceptions, including very good posts by ericabiz and tptacek.
Ah well. As VC Fred Wilson said in Girls Who Code, the brouhaha’s a good thing because we need to have a a broader discussion. Lauren Kay and Katie Bambino of The Dating Ring (an all-female company that’s jsut starting at YCombinator) make a similar point:
jon | 31-Dec-13 at 9:14 am | Permalink
The framing is somewhat strange in VentureBeat‘s debate Do incubators have an obligation to actively seek out female hackers?, but Rose Broome of HandUp has a great response:
And Jon Soberg of Blumberg makes some good points too:
jon | 31-Dec-13 at 9:29 pm | Permalink
Danilo Campos’ Explained: why people are angry at Paul Graham is a great analysis. Here’s the conclusion:
jon | 12-Feb-14 at 8:17 pm | Permalink
Score one for civil liberties and Hacker News!
jon | 22-Feb-14 at 4:05 pm | Permalink
Congrats to Y Combinator’s new president Sam Altman!
I don’t know a lot about Sam. He founded Loopt, a YC/Sequoia startup which raised $30M and was eventually acquired for $45M. In 2009’s Five Founders, Paul listed him as one of the “five most interesting founders of all time†and said “What I learned from meeting Sama is that the doctrine of the elect applies to startups.” Good to know.
In a quick search, the only thing I found on Sam’s views about diversity was in Advice to startups, where he suggests
Hmm. To me this seems to reserve the biggest rewards for the initial non-diverse folks (who typically get the richest options). And once you have a non-diverse culture, it gets increasingly harder to become diverse later. Look at YC: when it’s time to recruit new partners, they’re mostly guys; and when it’s time to recruit a a new president, it’s a guy.
Still, it’s just once guideline out of a long set. Perhaps it will turn out that diversity is part of what Paul means by YC’s growth, and Sam’s just the guy to do it. Time will tell.
And in the short term, it’s probably a signal that it’s close to time to wrap up this interminable thread 🙂
Update, October 2016: Here’s the current version of Sam Altman, as profiled by Tad Friend in the New Yorker
* along with Steve Jobs, Larry Page and Sergey Brin, Cypress Semiconductor’s TJ Rodgers, and Paul Buchheit of FriendFeed (and gmail) … Hey wait a second, I’m noticing a pattern here!
jon | 01-Mar-14 at 8:45 pm | Permalink
In an interview on Women 2.0, Jessica Livingson points to the current class as the most diverse yet:
True, and a good thing. On the other hand, it’s not 50-50; it’s not even close. So, maybe they should consider doing something dramatically different. [Update, March 3: See Shanley Kane’s and Kevin Marks’ graphics below for two different views of this data.]
And one of the upshots from the end-of-the-year brouhaha was YC’s Female Founders Conference. Jessica Livingston described the goal “to inspire women to start (or hang in there with!) a startup through the insights and experiences of those who have done it already.” I watched a couple of presentations, which were quite good. Role models and a support system are very good things, so kudos to YC for doing this. On Hacker News, though, there was the predictable sniping [1, 2, 3]. Ah well.
March 3: Tracy Lee Lawrence’s Good Founders Have Unapologetic Confidence + Tenacity has some additional data from Jessica’s keynote about the distribution of YC female founders:
jon | 03-Mar-14 at 4:21 pm | Permalink
Marianne Bellotti of Exversion shares her perspectives of the day in The ‘No Boys Allowed’ Dilemma: Thoughts on YC’s Female Founders Conference, starting with this:
Yeah really.
After making some interesting points about Jessica Livingstone’s keynote, Marianne goes on to highlight several excellent talks and panels including from Kathryn Minshew of The Muse, Diane Green of VMWare, Ann Johnson of Interana, and Jessica Mah of Indinero. [YC’s got a detailed wrapup on their blog.]
Marianne’s conclusion:
jon | 03-Mar-14 at 8:52 pm | Permalink
YC’s graph, annotated and tweeted by Shanley Kane:
And here’s another view of the same data, tweeted by Kevin Marks, from his spreadsheet of YC female founders
jon | 08-Mar-14 at 2:35 pm | Permalink
Both of those graphs show up in Ellen Chisa’s YC Female Founders Conference. Ellen attended the conference; her reaction:
Ellen makes some very good points about a few aspects of the discussions, and concludes
jon | 22-Mar-14 at 1:00 pm | Permalink
Paul’s planning on checking out of HN fairly soon. Before he leaves, though, he’s introducing a new crowdsourced moderation approach he calls “Pending comments“:
It’s an interesting experiment. Hacker News doesn’t provide any good way of filtering comments so cutting down on the number of “throwaways” can make the browser experience better. Cutting down on nastiness can make it a more positive environment; and if nastiness against women is one of the significant things that’s keeping women from participating, that could help diversity.
There are certainly potential downsides to this. Given the gender distribution on HN, it means that it’s mostly guys who will determine which comments are seen by everybody. It’s another barrier to relative newcomers, and might create a cycle where it’s hard for new people to get their comments seen which in turn keeps them from getting enough karma to participate — and so it creates another barrier to diversifying the population. And it could give “the old guard” another way to shut down unpopular topics or views (like women in technology, the NSA, or feminism).
So, we shall see …
March 23: on Medium, non-HNer Jonas Wisser shares some thoughts. His conclusion:
As I said, we shall see.
March 26: An update from Paul. Some great comments, for example this from britta:
And from saurik:
jon | 22-Mar-14 at 1:09 pm | Permalink
In What I’ve Learned From Female Founders So Far, incoming YC President Sam Altman discusses what he after tweeting a question to female founders about what YC could be doing better. Kudos to him for asking — and for listening!
Well said.
Sam also summarizes several other messages, like doing more to make women feel welcome (pointing to the lack of women on their web site as an example they’ll fix, and including more women in speaking opportunities as something they’re already doing) and making sure that there are women on all interview tracks.
Good stuff. Still to be determined how fully YC embraces this attitude and evolves. Model View Culture’s Blameful Post-Mortem summarized Sam’s original request as
Does Sam really understand how deeply the existing demographic biases have affected the entire ecosystem? And if so, how will YC deal with it?
jon | 26-Mar-14 at 1:56 pm | Permalink
A classic example of “neutral” algorithmic choices squeezing out marginalized views … Hampton Catlin’s Goodbye Firefox Marketplace discusses why he and his husband are boycotting Mozilla in response to their appointing a new CEO who gave money to a (temporarily-successful) campaign to strip legal rights from gays and lesbians. It was on the Hacker News front page for a while, as was another discussion of the issue, and then suddenly the threads dropped to the third and fourth pages. Presumably they ran afoul of the flame war detector because of the number of comments, or a bunch of people with enough karma to flag it saw the topic as “too political”.
March 27: Here’s a follow-on thread.
April 4: Solipsys has a useful collection of all the HN threads related to the Eich-as-CEO controversy. Here’s the comments on Eich’s resignation on Hacker News: [1, 2, 3].
Compare and contrast with Slashdot; Reddit [1, 2]; Ars Technica; Kara Swisher’s article in Re/Code; the Washington Post; Marc Andreessen‘s replies on Twitter; The Guardian, Conor Freiersdorf in The Atlantic; Boing Boing (using Discourse); Wired; ABC; The Verge; Yahoo (5000 comments!); NPR; CNET; ZD Net; Business Insider; Facebook-driven comments on TechCrunch, VentureBeat, the Mercury News; and Quora [1; 2].
jon | 30-Mar-14 at 11:43 am | Permalink
Meet the People Taking Over Hacker News introduces the people taking over the various aspects of HN from Paul: Daniel as moderator, Niko coding, Kevin on design, … hey wait a second, I’m seeing a pattern here. YC Director of Outreach Kat will be representing the YC perspective along with partner Gerry; otherwise, it’s boys boys boys. On HN, tptacek and tokenadult are enthusastic about Daniel, and he certainly seems like a thoughtful guy with a wide range of intersts who wants to improve the site. Still, if they’re really looking to make HN and YC more attractive to women, it’s a big missed opportunity.
jon | 06-Apr-14 at 9:15 pm | Permalink
Hmm. Does a guy replacing a woman’s intentionally-provocative words really make the place more attractive to women?
jon | 18-Apr-14 at 7:04 pm | Permalink
In An Update on Comments, dang points to a couple of experiments that he sees as working: intervening in threads with feedback, and tuning the algorithms to “make some downvotes more powerful” (no details on which).
Here’s an intervention on a thread about upcoming Obama’s visit to YC:
jon | 11-May-14 at 1:21 pm | Permalink
Hmm, didn't see this one coming: Quora will be joining the next YCombinator batch. Quora CEO Adam D'Angelo talks about why:
On TechCrunch, Adam tells Josh Constine that YC invested an amount similar to their standard $120K (which would be about 0.013% ownership). Josh also has some interesting thoughts about the potential value to Quora and to YC.
Hard to see how this will help Quora with the diversity challenges, though.
(Cross-posted in Life Imitates Art Imitates Life?)
jon | 05-Dec-14 at 11:27 am | Permalink
They're certainly saying some good things …
Y Combinator hires first black partner to recruit more minorities
usatoday.com
jon | 04-Jan-16 at 4:39 pm | Permalink
I took a week or so off checking news sites over the holidays, which was quite refreshing. When I went back to Hacker News on January 2, the top two links were both by Paul Graham: Economic Inequality and The Re-fragmentation. Nothing like starting the year off on a good note!
Holly Wood’s Paul Graham is Still Asking to be Eaten* is a much better version of the response I would have written if I had decided to make the effort. She summarizes:
Yeah really. It’s a great essay, well worth reading in its entirety. Here’s another excerpt:
Indeed. Like I said, a much better version of what I would have written if I had made the effort.
Instead, though, I decided to take it as a sign that it’s time for me to rethink my relationship with Hacker News. I’ve had some interesting discussions there, and it’s still the best source of links about software engineering and startups but it’s just not worth it. Quibb‘s got good content on the entrepreneurial side, and to be honest I’ll probably survive just find without seeing posts every single day about the lastest Javascript framework, functional programming techniques, and tradeoffs between NoSQL and Postgres. I often take advantage of the beginning of the year to step back and look at where I get my news. So thanks, Paul, for the timely essay.
Update: more context here in Buzzfeed
* The title’s a reference to her poem, Paul Graham is asking to be eaten
jon | 04-May-16 at 8:03 pm | Permalink
This one doesn’t directly relate to either civil liberties or diversity but it’s still mighty entertaining …
A few months ago, YC started up “Apply HN”: public applications on Hacker News for YC Fellowships. Maciej’s one-line application for Pinboard got the most votes by far, and the comments were overwhelmingly positive. YC added in a second round of voting and discussion; once again, Pinboard ran away with it. So then they decided to add in an additional screen: a phone call from Kevin, the guy running the Fellowship program. Kevin came away from his call with Maciej feeling “uncomfortable” and so they decided not to choose Pinboard. What a surprise.
Update, May 6:: YC apologized and decided to award Maciej the $20K; he in turn asked that it be donated to the SF Coalition on homelessness.
jon | 01-Nov-16 at 11:53 pm | Permalink
In the tech community, the news about Peter Thiel's donation to Trump immediately sparked a question: what about Peter's part-time position at Y Combinator?
Elsewhere, there was a lot of discussion — especially when first Paul and then Sam said they wanted to keep their friend Peter around.* Here's what it looked like on YC:
There sure is a lot of flagging here … it's almost like some people don't want talk about it and they're able to keep the story buried!
I appealed one of the flagged threads to the moderators, who declined to intervene, and pointed me to chief moderator 'dang's statement in response to 'pesenti's question Is flagging down YC/Thiel/Trump stories on HN a form of censorship?
A lot's happened in the two weeks since then but stuff still keeps getting flagged and the moderators keep not intervening. Not one of HN's prouder moments.
* on Twitter, 'tptacek (who's shown up quite a few times on this thread) offered Maciej 2000-1 odds that Sam would change his mind about Peter; and Paul blocked DHH. Pass the popcorn!
jon | 05-Dec-16 at 4:35 pm | Permalink
Unsurprisingly, ‘tptacek thinks it’s a great idea.
There’s a lot of pushback in the comments. Here’s mine, a response to lead moderator ‘dang.
Nitasha Tiku has more in Silicon Valley’s Most Popular Forum Bans Stories About Politics on Buzzfeed, with some fine tweets from Matthew Garrett, Danilo Campos, and Maciej of Pinboard. Meanwhile the discussion on HN went pretty much how you’d expect.
Update, December 7: ‘idlewords, ‘minimaxir, and I all submitted the story about Trump summoning tech leaders to New York for a meeting because, y’know, it seemed pretty relevant to technology. Of course it got flagged. So did William Gibson’s New York Times op-ed about privacy. ‘ubernostrum meticulously flagged and commented each story that related to politics and got banned as a result, although to his dismay it proved temporary. Good times.
jon | 08-Dec-16 at 1:12 am | Permalink
‘tptacek weighs in! As does adrienne, who says
Speaking of which, Anil’s now CEO of Fog Creek Software!
jon | 08-Dec-16 at 4:14 pm | Permalink
The no-politics “experiment” is over. Here’s ‘dang on what they learned:
Update, December 11: Here’s my summary of the experiment
jon | 12-Apr-17 at 9:00 am | Permalink
A classic HN moment
Gargron (aka ‘daveid) posted about Mastodon back in January.
Now, Mastodon’s hot. One of the best articles on it is by Sarah Jeong. Here’s what it looks like on HN:
jon | 05-Aug-17 at 9:27 am | Permalink
YC’s summer reading list is up … and it’s got 17 books by guys and 2 by women. You can’t make stuff like this up.
On HN, filwickers comments:
Well said.
jon | 05-Aug-17 at 9:37 am | Permalink
Here’s another fine HN discussion about diversity. It wound up getting flagged because … actually there’s no reason why it should be flagged other than “people don’t want to talk about it.”
Update: a few more discussions about the same general topic (the “Google Manifesto”) are equally stereoptypical: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. 8 (flagged after it soared to the top of the home page). Oh and here’s one from me that also got flagged.
jon | 10-Aug-17 at 3:54 pm | Permalink
Sex, pleasure, and diversity-friendly software: the article the ACM wouldn't publish - A Change Is Coming | 21-Apr-18 at 2:14 pm | Permalink
[…] Software as it is today – and the effect it has on the rest of the world – has largely been shaped by these kinds of patterns. A huge amount of effort (and zillions of dollars) goes to improving ad targeting, unethical tracking, and blockchain; almost none on countering harassment or providing accessibility. Sites like Stack Overflow reward arrogance and shaming and exclude women and people of color …. Y Combinator’s founder Paul Graham has a history of sexist statements, and YC’s Hacker News discussion cite is know for misogyny, nativism, and suppressing discussions of diversity. […]
jon | 09-Feb-19 at 3:37 pm | Permalink
After some classic PG sexism (tweeting an all-male list of “best investors ever”) Lisa Abeyta attempted to give some feedback. Arlan Hamilton summarizes:
Paul then heard what was being said and apologized … hahaha just kidding! Paul of course reacted defensively.
As Kara Swisher says …
Here’s Arlan’s video followup: